مناقشة مع أستاذة لغة بريطانية حول استخدام By the time

الموضوع في 'Foreign Languages Forum' بواسطة سيد إسماعيل, بتاريخ ‏20 نوفمبر 2009.

  1. سيد إسماعيل
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    سيد إسماعيل عضو جديد

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    أقدم لكم مناقشة مع أستاذة لغة بريطانية حول استخدام التعبير By the time

    SAYED

    Would you please tell me whether the following sentence is correct or not?
    Also, please tell me why?

    - By the time Hesham had finished work, it was very late

    You know that " By the time " must be followed by
    past simple but here it's
    followed by past perfect. So, I think it's wrong and
    should be as follows

    By the time Hesham finished work , it had been
    very late

    We can also say
    By the time Hesham finished work , it was very
    late

    please let me know your opinion / kind explanation

    CLARE

    "You know that " By the time " must be followed by
    past simple" - who said that? That's not true at all. In fact, you could use either past simple or past perfect

    " It was already late by the time he had finished work"
    "By the time he finished work, it was already late "

    It depends whether you want to emphasise that one event finished work) happened before another (it was late). In this case, you don't need the past perfect because it's obvious which one happened first


    SAYED


    Many thanks for your reply but I know that " By the time "
    before . So , we can say =

    - Before Hesham finished work , it had been very late

    Correct???

    But we say

    After it had been very late , Hesham finished work

    Or

    Hesham finished work after it had been very late

    / That is the difference grammatically between : Before
    by the time and after

    But as you know you can also put the two verbs in the past
    simple

    By the time/ Before Hesham finished work , it was very late

    After it was very late , Hesham finished work

    Believe me , that is what the grammar books say and also
    what we have learned at schools

    Do you agree with me?


    N.B

    In the mentioned sentence, the time became
    very late first, then Hesham finished work

    So,we can not say " By the time Hesham had finished " but we should say " By the time
    Hesham finished ". Only the verb in second part
    of the sentence can be either in the past perfect or the past simple

    Thus we can say

    By the time Hesham finished work , it had been
    very late

    Or

    By the time Hesham finished work , it was very
    late

    But the other sentence is wrong

    - By the time Hesham had finished work, it was very late

    Do agree with me?


    CLARE

    Before / After he finished work, Hesham (did) something

    No past perfect. You don't need it as it's clear by the use of before / after what the sequence of activities is. We only really use past perfect when the sequence isn't otherwise clear

    You said "So,we can not say " By the time Hesham had finished " but we should say " By the time
    Hesham finished ". Only the verb in second part
    of the sentence can be either in the past perfect or the past simple." but this is NOT true. You can use the past perfect after "by the time" or the past simple

    You can't use by the time instead of before. They mean the same thing, but the grammar is different. with "by the time" you are focussing on the events before another, so the past perfect is possible




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  2. The Admiral
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    The Admiral .. عضو مميز .. .. عضو مميز ..

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  3. Excellent
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    Excellent .. عضو مميز .. .. عضو مميز ..

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  4. شموخ الحربي
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    thanksssssssssss

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